1 JUNE 1940PURANI: The Muslim delegation was very pleased with Dilip's music last night - especially so when Dilip said that the Muslim Page -682 have made a great contribution to music. (Laughter) That pleases them very much but they are not so pleased when any Hindu contribution is spoken of. It is quite apparent. It was Aurangzeb who banned music among the Muslims. The Koran also forbids it. SRI AUROBINDO: The Koran also? PURANI: Yes, that is why other Muslim countries like Persia have no music. In India, after Akbar music dwindled among the Muslims; by Aurangzeb's order all court musicians were thrown out of employment. SRI AUROBINDO: What about painting? PURANI: Painting also. SRI AUROBINDO: Do they think that birds and animals can be representative of God? PURANI: Perhaps they consider it a luxury. SRI AUROBINDO: But that is inconsistent. They can have many concubines. Is that not a luxury? PURANI: Yes, four are sanctioned and that only in Arabistan. It may be due to a disproportionate number of men and women. SRI AUROBINDO: That has not been recorded. PURANI: In this visiting Muslim group only one or two are open to spiritual things and interested in them. One is a professor of mathematics in Aligarh and another from Murshidabad is Secretary of the Assembly. The others are all closed. But the vice-chancellor took pride in the Ashram because it was started by a Bengali. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): The Bengali Muslims have some such feelings. Nazimuddin said that the Congress has done injustice to Bose and it was an insult to Bengal. SATYENDRA: Italy is coming into the war. PURANI: Demanding Corsica! SRI AUROBINDO: France can as well claim Sicily saying that France conquered it at one time, and Sardinia because it is near her. PURANI: It seems Roosevelt is standing for the third time. SRI AUROBINDO: Is he? Is it decided? PURANI: Almost. Somebody whom Roosevelt was to back for President has given a hint that Roosevelt will stand. Absence of precedence is no reason, he says. Some American admiral has said that instead of waiting to deliver four thousand airplanes after some years, America should send one thousand planes straightaway to the Allies. Page -683 SRI AUROBINDO: Roosevelt would have done that except for this election affair. Wilson took his stand because he had already been elected. PURANI: The President has unlimited powers. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes, he can do practically anything except get money from the Congress.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO (starting the talk): The French are not clever at retreat. The Germans seem to have separated the French army from the B.E.F., the main part of which is now evacuating. The French were covering the B.E.F. By this separation two divisions seem to have been lost. The Germans claim that they have captured General Prioux. The paper says that the Germans have divided the line from Lille and Dunkirk and that there are some hills in Belgium which afford natural defence lines. The Germans were trying to occupy these hills, one of which Mount Cassel, they have captured. By that move they have been able to separate the French army. (After a time) I was wondering why the Allies were not erecting something like trenches around Dunkirk to defend it more effectively against mechanised tanks, and I now find that they have done exactly that, SATYENDRA: Yes, they have dug moats and flooded the area, What news about Narvik? (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, now we find that Narvik was taken by the French, Poles and Norwegians. The British helped only with their navy. PURANI: Sisir told me to ask Azizul Huque for the Calcutta University publications for our Ashram. Huque consented to give them. It seems he was only an ordinary pleader at Krishnanagar. It was because he was somehow connected with Fazlul Huque that he got a lift. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, he belongs to the Huque dynasty?
EVENINGPURANI: The Allies did not seem to have correct information about the strength of the German air force. Their espionage system wasn't very efficient. Neither did they know the strength of the German mechanised units. Page -684 SRI AUROBINDO: No. PURANI: What a tremendous number of planes they have brought forth! They must have about 20,000, I suppose. NIRODBARAN: But not very efficient. SRI AUROBINDO: Even as regards their tanks they are inferior to the French ones, it seems. PURANI: Yes, one French tank is almost equal to two or three German ones. SRI AUROBINDO: You saw the story of two Frenchmen attacking, like the Abyssinians, a German tank with revolvers. As soon as the German tank driver saw the revolvers, he cried out, "Kamarad" and surrendered. (Laughter) The Germans act by sheer mass drive and daring. But individually the soldiers were better in the Kaiser's time. They had more initiative. SATYENDRA: If Italy joins in, the French will be in a difficult position. They will attack France from the south. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but the observers say that France has kept a big army there. SATYENDRA: Yes. NIRODBARAN: It seems Italy is going to attack Egypt, Tunis and Corsica first. The Russians call it all bluff. PURANI: Their breaking off of trade negotiations with England is significant. SRI AUROBINDO : Still England hopes for an agreement! NIRODBARAN : The Amrita Bazar says that due to the influence of a certain general, Leopold surrendered. SRI AUROBINDO: The Amrita Bazar? NIRODBARAN: It is a special cable news. And Leopold's sister and mother also, who were in Rome, exercised their influence on him. This general had been to Rome and returned just three days before the surrender. It seems Hitler exerted his influence through Mussolini and has promised Leopold the kingship of Holland. (The paper was shown to Sri Aurobindo and after reading it he asked us to give it to Pavitra for the Mother to see.) SRI AUROBINDO: Then what the Mother said comes true. She said that it might be due to some pro-Nazi general and the influence of his mother that he surrendered. (Looking at Nirodbaran) Have you seen what Rukmini Devi says? NIRODBARAN: No. Page -685 SRI AUROBINDO: She says that it is not fair to blame the King and to demonstrate before the statue of King Albert in that way. She was in sympathy with Belgium. 3 JUNE 1940PURANI: Franco's representative seems to have met Mussolini and then gone to meet Hitler. SRI AUROBINDO: Who is he? PURANI: I forget his name - some general. Military circles say that after seeing the Dunkirk operation they are convinced that the navy is still superior to the air force. The German air force could not cause much damage to their soldiers or to the navy. NIRODBARAN: That is because of the R.A.F. resistance and because the German air force is not so efficient. SRI AUROBINDO: An air force is effective only on land. On sea it is not so effective. PURANI; They say that tons and tons of bombs have been lost without causing any proportionate damage. SRI AUROBINDO: That, of course. Still it is not as bad as the old bombardment. You know the story of the bombing of Smyrna? SATYENDRA: No. SRI AUROBINDO: After a whole day's bombardment they killed only a goat and a donkey!. (Laughter) SATYENDRA: These had perhaps come there on hearing the noise! PURANI: General Prioux is said to have reached Dunkirk -the morning radio news says. SRI AUROBINDO: No, it is not correct. It seems only a part of Prioux's troops has reached there. Looks as if they were lost. Almost the whole of the B.E.F. has escaped. The French were farther away from the coast. PURANI: King Leopold's mother is said to be a German. SRI AUROBINDO: German? I see. Who said so? PURANI: Jwalanti.¹ Nishtha² also says that she is an enigma. During the last war's peace negotiations, her face used to be like a ¹The mother of Gabriel Monod-Herzen. ²Margaret Woodrow Wilson. Page -685 mask. Nobody knew whether she sided with Germany or with the Allies. Nishtha has met her. SRI AUROBINDO: But it was said that she strongly supported the king against the Germans. Just because she is a German does not mean that she should side with Germany. The English king also was German; so was the Rumanian king. SATYENDRA: Maeterlinck says that the German blood is alive. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): Yes. NIRODBARAN: I thought Maeterlinck was long dead. SATYENDRA: So did I. SRI AUROBINDO: Very much alive! SATYENDRA: This Hapsburg dynasty seems a very long one; that is what Gunther says. SRI AUROBINDO: No, most European royal families married into small German states which are now extinct and the rest in Scandinavian countries. NIRODBARAN: It is said that the Germans will now make a drive towards Paris instead of England. SRI AUROBINDO: That is one of the possibilities. Otherwise if the French consolidate their position in the north, it will be difficult for the Germans to penetrate. So they may think of striking. SATYENDRA: And if Italy comes in, it will be difficult for France. NIRODBARAN: Italy's coming in means the extension of the war to the Balkans too. SRI AUROBINDO: That depends on Mussolini. He may do it later on after winning the war, provided Hitler does not come in the way. SATYENDRA: If Spain also comes in, it will make it still worse for France. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, attack on three sides. NIRODBARAN: But Spain has not yet recovered. PURANI: Still, it can attack Gibraltar. The French, of course, can attack through the Pyrenees. SRI AUROBINDO: France would have enough to face before attacking Spain. No, Italy can take possession of Majorca and Minorca and separate France from her colonies with its navy. PURANI: Also she can establish an air base. Spain's change of attitude may have been helped by Pétain's departure too. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. France has had such dangers before, as Reynaud says. She has been invaded a hundred times. But England Page -687 is in a dangerous position only now. Even during Napoleon's time she had her allies in Europe. Now she has only France to rely upon. NIRODBARAN: We do not hear of Gamelin now. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): No. NIRODBARAN: Has he committed suicide then? SRI AUROBINDO: No, he has been relieved of his duty. NIRODBARAN: The Amrita Bazar says that the failure to blow up a bridge on the Meuse was responsible for the German penetration. SRI AUROBINDO: That is one reason; but Gamelin's disposition and his placing of troops under X, was weak. NIRODBARAN: India is increasing her defence measures now, by three or four times. SATYENDRA: From seventy to eighty aeroplanes, perhaps. (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: The Indian Navy is said to be having a portentous force. (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: The chance of Gandhi's starting his civil disobedience is getting more and more remote. SATYENDRA: He does not want to embarrass the British now. SRI AUROBINDO: Also he says that the Congress and the country are not non-violent enough. If he waits for everybody to become non-violent, he will never be able to start it. NIRODBARAN: I think he just says it in order to prepare the people. In fact he does not want to start it now. SRI AUROBINDO: He would have come to a compromise but for Bose with his Forward Bloc and Nehru. PURANI: He wants England to be in a better position before he starts the civil disobedience. But with Italy and Spain coining in- SRI AUROBINDO: It will be much worse. By the way, have you seen that Nehru is prepared to shed his blood for the country against Hitler? SATYENDRA: He wants to be recruited.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO (addressing Purani): Have you seen that history repeats itself? Germany dropped two bombs on England and killed only a chicken! (Laughter) PURANI: Yes, yes. It must be a joke. Page -688 CHAMPAKLAL: In the morning it was a donkey and a goat and now a chicken! PURANI : Bombing from the air does not seem to be as effective as they think it to be. There is a lot of waste, for many bombs miss the target. SRI AUROBINDO: To hit properly the plane has to come down very low, but then it exposes itself to the anti-aircraft guns, while from a height it can't aim correctly. SATYENDRA: What is the news about the British Expeditionary Force evacuation? SRI AUROBINDO: It is very confused. They say that four-fifths have been removed. Since Lord Gort is in England, it may be true. But there is no news of the unfortunate Prioux. PURANI: Italy seems to be preparing to enter the war. France will have to face another menace. SATYENDRA: We thought that if Italy joined it would be advantageous for the Allies. It will enable them to make an offensive. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, but just after this great struggle in Flanders the Allies have become weak. If at this moment Italy gives a blow, it may be serious. PURANI: If Spain also joins then there will be a double menace. SRI AUROBINDO: Spain has sent a military mission — not any general. That does not necessarily mean anything; of course it may, but it need not. If Spain joins, it will be at the mercy of Germany and Italy if they win. And besides there are many discontented elements in Spain who are waiting for an opportunity to revolt. If Spain joins, they will at once seize the opportunity. PURANI: Spain can take possession of Majorca and Minorca at once. SRI AUROBINDO: Perhaps it will wait for Italy to take them. The Spanish are a virtuous people and think that virtue will win in the end. (After some time) You have seen that in India everybody is prepared to shed his blood. (Laughter) Asaf Ali is not satisfied with the defence measures. NIRODBARAN: The commander-in-chief says that we have everything except technicians. PURANI: All the tanks and mechanised units of the Germans have people who are skilled technicians as well, so that they may repair at once anything that goes wrong. Page -689 SRI AUROBINDO: Not only that but there are highly trained soldiers in the mechanised units. It is because the British were raw in Norway that they could not cope with the Germans. In Flanders, though the B.E.F. were territorials, they have been trained for a long number of years. When Napoleon was thinking of attacking England and was preparing the navy, a general said to him, "It is very well to talk like that. To train a sailor requires many years, while a soldier can be trained in just six months." Napoleon said, "Don't talk like that. A soldier requires at least two years' training." PURANI: Gandhi said the same thing as you do. He said it would require at least twenty-five years for India to prepare herself for defence. SRI AUROBINDO: That is obvious to everybody. PURANI (after a while): Somebody in Gujarat has prophesied that Hitler's decline will begin in June — that is, now. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): That fulfils my prophecy -which I myself never made! Some Anglo-French woman said that the sage of the Ashram had prophesied that Hitler's decline would come in May. The decline will really depend on the strength of the French line. They have now built it up. PURANI: In the last war, they threw in a large number of men against the Germans coming to Paris. It was an immense sacrifice against all military codes. "Not to Paris at any cost," was their resolve. And the German attack slowed down. SRI AUROBINDO: The credit for it went to (name missed). Krishnalal's picture of a terrified monkey clasping her young one in protection was shown to Sri Aurobindo. SRI AUROBINDO: Have you seen the photo of two refugees cowering from the explosion of bombs? (Laughter) These monkeys look very much like those refugees. 5 JUNE 1940EVENINGThe radio said that Germany had resumed her attack along the Somme. PURANI: It means her drive towards Paris. Page -690 SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. PURANI: I hope Weygand has been able to reconstruct the line. He has a heavy work to do. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh yes, a tremendous work. PURANI: If he can drive back the Germans — SRI AUROBINDO: Then he will go down in history as the greatest military leader. If only he can resist them for some months till the French are ready for an offensive, that would be something. NIRODBARAN: Germany has started war against Switzerland also. SRI AUROBINDO: Just the preparation for it. PURANI : I suppose Hitler wants to bring in Italy then and it will be very advantageous to him. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. PURANI: Italy seems to be vacillating because of the strong American pressure. SRI AUROBINDO: You saw how Bullitt escaped? It is lucky for Hitler. I was wondering what America would have done if Bullitt had been bulletted. He had a double escape, it seems. The bomb did not burst in the restaurant but in the courtyard and it did not hit him. NIRODBARAN: He said that God was with him. SRI AUROBINDO (laughing): I had said he would feel the presence of God. The French have awarded Prioux the Legion d'Honneur. In that case he must have been in Dunkirk. The papers said that it was due to his organisation that the British Army was able to evacuate. Then the German statement that he was taken prisoner long ago must be a myth. The British Government was wise in asking the French Government to escape by aeroplane, while Prioux could not. Such men are worth more than soldiers. PURANI: Duff Cooper was also in Paris during the raid. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he was also in a restaurant. NIRODBARAN: Munching bread and butter! (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: As the waiters were forbidden to serve the meal during the air raid. Are the waiters not allowed to go and take shelter during the raid? 6 JUNE 1940The radio said that the Germans had penetrated through the French lines in some places. Page -691 SRI AUROBINDO: The Germans' technique is to accumulate all their strength at one point and then make a drive. The French don't seem to be able to prevent the thrust. PURANI: No, though their air force is attacking the rear. SRI AUROBINDO: That cannot prevent the advance, it can or hamper it. PURANI: The French also could gather their mass against the Germans. SRI AUROBINDO: That is what they should do. I don't know why they don't. I suspect they have dispersed their forces too much. In the east, of course, if Italy comes into the war, it would be helpful. In the last war they found some counter-measures against German attacks. This time they don't seem to have found anything yet.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO: Have you seen that India is going to be a great military country? The Viceroy is forming civil guards for defend (Laughter) PURANI: If they were trained to handle machine-guns and tanks, that would be something. Nirodbaran (smiling): They will be given only batons! SRI AUROBINDO: Batons? NIRODBARAN: Yes. PURANI: Gandhi will object even to that. It is against non-violence. SATYENDRA: Why? He doesn't object to the nation using violence, if it wants to. His ideal is only for himself. PURANI: Yes, the nation can have its army for defence. SRI AUROBINDO: But he changed his principle with regard to monkeys. PURANI: Monkeys? SRI AUROBINDO: Monkeys in his Ashram! PURANI: Oh, yes. You mean he may change with regard to Hitler-monkeys also? (Laughter) He is quite capable of that. SRI AUROBINDO: Hitler was born to prove the inapplicability of Ahimsa. NIRODBARAN: The small neutrals seemed to have followed Gandhi's method in submitting to Hitler so easily. SATYENDRA: In Holland and Belgium he met some resistance. Page -692 NIRODBARAN: In Holland? There was no fight there, I think. SRI AUROBINDO: There was a fight there but they allowed themselves to be killed more than kill. Perhaps Gandhi's non-violence? They did not go the whole hog in the Gandhi way. SATYENDRA: The Poles also surrendered very quickly in spite of their being good soldiers. SRI AUROBINDO: That was because of their generals and leaders. If they had had somebody like Mannerheim, then Germany would have been foiled. 7 JUNE 1940PURANI: Churchill's speech has come as a revelation to Italy. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Italy thought the Allied Army had been annihilated. PURANI : Ironside is now forming mobile units to guard against a German invasion. Doing it too late. SRI AUROBINDO: Why too late? PURANI: When the attack is imminent. SRI AUROBINDO: I don't think any attack is likely now except by small armies which will be crushed by overwhelming numbers. There is no more chance of surprise attacks. Besides, the Allies have destroyed all the ports and without ports the Germans can't launch an attack. It will take time to put them in order, and by that time England will be still more ready. Even now she has a strong army ready. No, Hitler won't attack; he has not intuition but intimation. That is why he is driving against Paris. He knows that if he sets out to repair the ports and attack England, by the time he is ready the Allies will be quite prepared and afterwards attacks on Paris won't be possible.
EVENINGSRI AUROBINDO: The French have destroyed four hundred tanks they say. It is a very good number — one-fifth of the whole. PURANI: Yes, the Germans have brought in two thousand tanks. SRI AUROBINDO: It seems Hitler brought two-and-a-half million men to Belgium and only fifty thousand were lost. Still he Page -693 has two million while the Allies did not use even a million there; no wonder they were defeated. Have you read that the Belgian consul has become furious with the Amrita Bazar and calls it a gossip-monger? He praises Churchill and The Hindu. But now Churchill says that one can form one's own opinion about the conduct of. Leopold. (Laughter) Nishtha met him in America. She says that he is a man of underhanded dealings. When she heard of his defection, the first thing she said was, "Oh, it must be his mother." 8 JUNE 1940PURANI: Daladier has been ousted altogether from the Cabinet. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the man whom Reynaud has taken in his place is said to be a specialist, and non-political. PURANI: There are already plenty of political people. It seems it was Daladier who relieved Weygand and put Gamelin in his place. And when there was apprehension of trouble he sent him to the Middle East. Weygand is a Catholic. SRI AUROBINDO: I see. Pétain also is a Catholic. PURANI: Yes. NIRODBARAN: Daladier is anti-Catholic? SRI AUROBINDO: He is a radical. NIRODBARAN (after a while): Italy is between two fires. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, Russia has warned her against any move in the Balkans and America against extending the field of war while Hitler is pressing Mussolini. PURANI: Even in today's paper there is something about American pressure on Italy. America has already sent some dive-bombers, it seems, lending them to the Allies. SRI AUROBINDO: Not lending but sending to some company which will forward them. (Laughter) NIRODBARAN: Hitler is quietly swallowing all that. He does not utter a single word of threat against America. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, he is very cautious. He does not want her to join the Allies. SRI AUROBINDO (after a while, laughing): J has written to the Mother denouncing her action in supporting the French who are killing the communists. (Laughter) Page -694 PURANI: Still he has his sympathy for the communists? But he didn't write about his approaching marriage? SRI AUROBINDO: Marriage? PURANI: Yes, as soon as his B.A. result is out he will get married. NIRODBARAN: How can he write about it? It will bring denunciation on him. PURANI: He is going to marry in his caste. SRI AUROBINDO: Communists have castes? PURANI : He has seen in Bombay, perhaps, that educated girls are more forward and won't tolerate any subjection. NIRODBARAN: Has his health improved? PURANI: Yes. He says he is much better now. He wrote to the Mother about his health. SRI AUROBINDO: Marriage might do him good — make him sober. Because much of his trouble was due to sexual imbalance. NIRODBARAN: Yes, but who will be the unfortunate bride, I wonder! SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, she may be unfortunate. PURANI : He is going about giving lectures on Yoga, the Ashram and you. His communist comrades don't understand how he, being a communist, praises you. They think, "Is he a black sheep in the fold or what?" SRI AUROBINDO: A bi-striped animal. (Laughter) PURANI: The socialists in Bombay are not in the forefront now. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? PURANI: After the seceding of Masani, they have lost ground. SRI AUROBINDO: Why has Masani seceded? PURANI: He does not seem to have found anybody sincere among them. He now lives a retired life. SRI AUROBINDO: The socialists generally have not stood the test. In the beginning there were sincere people, but later on they became respectable. The communists are more idealistic than the socialists. They have to live and work in obloquy and that requires sincerity. It is like religion. When a religion is new and fresh, plenty of people come in, but as it gets older it is no longer so; people become respectable and it becomes a church. (After a pause) Why does J say that the French are killing the communists? They are only imprisoning them. PURANI: Because of the death penalty hanging over them. Page -695 SRI AUROBINDO: That, only if they do any subversive activity like interfering with the soldiers. They were trying to make a pact with Hitler. PURANI: The French seemed to have destroyed seven hundred tanks. SRI AUROBINDO : Yesterday it was four hundred - a very good number. PURANI: Today's paper says seven hundred. SRI AUROBINDO: Which paper? The Hindu? PURANI: No, The Indian Express. (Laughter) Hitler is not dive-bombers in the attack this time. SRI AUROBINDO: He did at first, but it was not effective due to the measure adopted on the direction of Weygand — that the troops should disperse as soon as a bomber arrives, and close in after it has left. Bombers are very costly. SATYENDRA: If they can hold on for a month, it will create very good effect; it will give confidence to the soldiers. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, if they can hold on for a month, then they will be able to hold on as long as they like. (Addressing Nirodbaran) Have you read Krishnaprem's review of The Life Divine?. NIRODBARAN: Yes. SRI AUROBINDO: How do you find it? (Nirodbaran gave a laugh.) SATYENDRA: He says that the two denials are the same as in Buddhism — their avoidance points to the middle path. PURANI : And Mahayana's equation of Nirvana and Samsara also is the same teaching as in The Life Divine - about the acceptance of life. SRI AUROBINDO: Did Buddha say that? I thought he preached renunciation. PURANI: It is the Mahayana school, which came into existence after Buddha, that holds this view of the acceptance of life. The Hinayana school does not. SATYENDRA: Everybody finds things in The Life Divine according to their own predilection. Somebody found Tantra and Krishnaprem finds Buddhism. SRI AUROBINDO: Especially as he is in a Buddhistic phase now. NIRODBARAN: Sisir says that the reviewers should give quotations from the writers. That is the modern trend now. SRI AUROBINDO: I don't find that in the New Statesman and Nation. On the other hand, sometimes their quotations are Page -696 irritating, especially in poetry. But they should give quotations in poetry.
EVENINGThe newspaper and radio said that the British Army in the west had retreated in the face of the German attack. SRI AUROBINDO: So the British troops are getting mastery in retreat? They have withdrawn to Brussels leaving their former position. They say that their division consists of the Highlanders. The Highlanders are better fighters. It is the territorial force, I think, without any sufficient training, that has been pushed to the front. Even if it had been the Expeditionary Force it would have been something. NIRODBARAN: They could not hold on even for a day! It is said that the German pressure was heavy in that sector. SRI AUROBINDO: So was it in the French sector. They should be withdrawn to the rear and first given some training in fighting or removed to the Maginot Line. NIRODBARAN: They could be set to deal with the tanks in the rear. SRI AUROBINDO: Oh, they will be no good for that! PURANI : Hitler must be getting wild with America. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? Has he said so anywhere? PURANI: No, they are sending naval planes, dive-bombers and all possible help short of sending an army. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, the isolationists are quiet now. NIRODBARAN: Gayda is trying a little outburst. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if America intervenes in Europe, why shouldn't we intervene in America? Roosevelt knows that the Nazis will do it in any case; so there is nothing much to lose. (After a while) We are getting more anti-imperialistic letters denouncing our help to the imperialistic Allies. Jatin Sen Gupta, also, it seems, has written to the Mother. PURANI: That contractor? SRI AUROBINDO: Yes. PURANI: It is, as Satyendra says, due to the big figure of 10,000 francs. They don't know that it is equivalent to only a few hundred rupees. (Laughter) Page -697 SATYENDRA: About seven or eight hundred. PURANI: They also don't know about the political movement here against us. SRI AUROBINDO: This contribution should stop it. They should know that I have been living here under the protection of the French Government. Were it not for that, I would now be in an English prison. And apart from that, after India, France has most of our disciples and some have gone to the front in Belgium. The Mother's nephew is there -he was in Belgium - we don't know if he is still alive. And France has the best sale of our books. Though it was spreading to Czechoslovakia and then through Switzerland to Italy, even to Chile where somebody wanted to translate Thoughts and Glimpses. Now all that is stopped due to this war. If Hitler achieves domination of the world there won't be any national independence left anywhere and spiritual work will be doomed. England and France are bad enough but still some liberty of thought and spirituality are left under them. Besides, as I don't hold the principles of the objectors, why should I act according to them? PURANI (after a pause): The Modern Review has brought out an article on the Khaksar movement. I haven't read it as yet. SRI AUROBINDO: The Sunday Express says that the Khaksar movement was being fed from Germany. PURANI: It is quite true. That came out in the secret police investigation. That is why the Indian Government came down on them and Sikandar Hyat could not protect them any more. NIRODBARAN: Hitler has duped them with Muslim Raj? SRI AUROBINDO: No, maybe independence of India. This Mushriki has been to England? PURANI: Yes, he is an I.C.S. Independence by Hitler? He says that Indians are a primitive race. SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, even the other day when he was to be friendly with England and to divide France, he said white races should keep the black races under subjection. Page -698 9 JUNE 1940NIRODBARAN: I find Dilip in my company regarding Krishnaprem's review of The Life Divine. He is not much impressed by it. SRI AUROBINDO: Why? NIRODBARAN: He says that there is nothing characteristic about it, and it doesn't go far enough. And Krishnaprem does not seem to have understood the Supermind. SRI AUROBINDO: No, that he hasn't. NIRODBARAN: When Dilip saw that Krishnaprem makes Nirvana and Samsara equal according to Buddha, he revolted. That was too much because Buddha has always been against Samsara. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course, Buddha never said that. Krishnaprem speaks according to the Mahayana. Mahayana went much further. Buddha didn't say what Nirvana is and he did not say that Nirvana and Samsara are equal. PURANI: As an authority on Buddhism, Mrs. Rhys Davies seems to be the best person. SRI AUROBINDO: No, she is not very reliable. The Mahayana conception of Nirvana seems to be something like Laotse's Tao. Tao, according to him, is a condition of nothingness that is beyond all present construction, and that is the nothingness which contains everything. (Addressing Purani) Do you know anything about the Nous, the Divine Mind, of Plotinus? Krishnaprem appears to make the Supermind and the Nous the same. Nous seems to be Intelligence. PURANI: I do not know if Divine Mind would be the same as Supermind. SRI AUROBINDO: When they consider Shankara the greatest of realists and my philosophy the same as his... PURANI: What can you say about others? (Laughter) SRI AUROBINDO: Is it the supramental urge for unification? (Laughter) PURANI: Italy has ordered her ships to neutral ports. SRI AUROBINDO: It means war then. PURANI: And it seems the German generals are to go to Italian Africa. Page -699 NIRODBARAN: What a huge mass Hitler has thrown into the north! SRI AUROBINDO: Yes, if Weygand can hold on, it's all right; otherwise a dark lookout. Germany has the advantage of concentrating all its strength at one point, while the Allies have to keep their forces scattered. NIRODBARAN: Germany seems to be making for the ports -first, Dieppe. SRI AUROBINDO: Dieppe is a minor port. Le Havre, Cherbourg, Boulogne and Calais are the major ones. NIRODBARAN: Why are the British not sending their army? They have a big force. SRI AUROBINDO: Their army is still in training. They have adopted conscription too late. Somebody from Switzerland informed France that if Germany attacks her through Basle, Switzerland will be able to hold on for forty-eight hours and has warned France to make arrangements beforehand. Basle is flat forestland. From the end of France to Basle there is what is called a trou — a hole, that is — there is no Maginot Line there. Of course Switzerland can fight by retreating into the mountains. Hitler may not think of attacking there now because of his concentration in the north. PURANI: Perhaps he is waiting for Italy to join and then make a combined attack there. SRI AUROBINDO: Probably. NIRODBARAN: It is very strange that France did not build any Maginot Line on the Belgian frontier. SRI AUROBINDO: There were only scattered fortifications. PURANI: Even during these eight months they did not do anything, SRI AUROBINDO: That is not enough. France counted on Belgian fortifications which were supposed to be very strong. Liege held up the enemy for a long time. They also thought that the forest of Ardennes would form a natural barrier and the Germans would find it difficult to cross it. Of course, it is all Daladier's work -the most indefensible War Minister. He seems to have done nothing. It is like the story of the general of Napoleon III. When Napoleon asked him, "Is everything prepared?" he replied, "Yes, up to the last button," and when the attack began everything broke down at once! As for Gamelin, he seems to know only the Page -700 names of officers and nothing more and is quite helpless when in difficulty. That shows that it is easy to build up a reputation during peace. PURANI: In the secret session they will try to throw out Chamberlain and other previous ministers who were responsible for this bad preparation. SRI AUROBINDO: I see. PURANI: And it is the Conservatives who will lead the attack, it seems. SRI AUROBINDO: Of course they made a tremendous blunder. NIRODBARAN: Tom Paine says in the New Statesman and Nation that Chamberlain wanted to make an alliance with Germany. SRI AUROBINDO: Not so far as that but it was Baldwin and Chamberlain's policy to make a four Power alliance: Italy, Germany, England and France to settle all European affairs. Of course England is responsible for all this, for it is England that raised Germany so that France might not be too powerful. It is the old policy of balance of power. She did not think that her own weapon might strike against her.
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